STEVE INSKEEP, HOST:
Australian Prime Minister Anthony Albanese is in Washington to meet with President Trump at the White House today. Australia remains one of the closest U.S. allies, one that, like the United States, has a complicated relationship with China. Michael Fullilove is on the line. He's executive director of the Lowy Institute, which is an international policy think tank based in Sydney. It's early morning here but in the evening there, so good evening, sir.
MICHAEL FULLILOVE: Good morning, Steve.
INSKEEP: (Laughter) Thank you very much. What is your prime minister's goal in this visit?
FULLILOVE: I think his goal is to survive and prosper because we've seen that meetings with Mr. Trump can go well or they can go poorly. And in our case, Australia is, as you alluded to, America's most reliable ally, the only country to fight beside the United States in every major conflict of the 20th and 21st centuries, a Five Eyes member. You're our principal security partner. Mr. Trump was elected nearly 12 months ago, but this is the first proper sit-down meeting between the two leaders. So I think it's important for Australia. There are equities to protect. But the most important thing is for Mr. Albanese to establish a professional, positive, businesslike relationship with Mr. Trump, who can be unpredictable.
INSKEEP: I will define one of the terms there. When you say the Five Eyes, there are five English-speaking nations around the world that have closely shared intelligence since World War II. And, of course, Australia is one of those countries. Now, with all of that said, the United States has increased its tariffs on Australia, as it has on nations around the world. How much has that affected your economy?
FULLILOVE: Look, we're in the fortunate category of the lowest baseline tariff rate of 10%. And actually, the trade between the United States and Australia is not particularly significant. Our economy is probably more affected by the tariffs that have been put on China. I actually happened to be in China on Liberation Day, if you remember that day.
INSKEEP: Yeah.
FULLILOVE: And so I think, you know, for us, the - our - the key triangle for us in our foreign policy is that formed between the United States, China and Australia. And so our relationship with China depends in large part on your relationship with China.
INSKEEP: Oh, let me try to understand that. When the United States has a trade war with China, as it currently does, when it drastically raises tariffs on China, does the general slowing down of trade also indirectly affect your country's economy?
FULLILOVE: Yeah, very much. Very much. I mean, you know that phrase - when two elephants fight, it's the grass that suffers. And most countries in Asia - for most countries in Asia, their biggest trading partner is China. And so when the Chinese economy is hit by these kinds of tariffs, that will affect all of us. But it's also on the security side, Steve, as well as the economic side. I mean, Australia has had a complicated relationship with China. Just earlier this year, the People's Liberation Army Navy circumnavigated the Australian continent.
So we want the United States to remain engaged in Asia. We want - because America's presence in Asia brings balance to the region. So we don't want an argument. We don't want aggro between the United States and China. But at the same time, we definitely don't want the United States to step back from China. We don't want the United States to withdraw from China. And given Mr. Trump's historical sort of allergy to alliances and his lack of interest in the deployments in South Korea and elsewhere, that's something that Australians worry about.
INSKEEP: There is a moment here where Australia might be helpful, though, I suppose. The United States is trying to negotiate with the Chinese. China has applied leverage by limiting the export of rare-earth minerals, which are vital for defense industries and many other kinds of industries across the board. This is a real problem for the United States. How can the Australians help?
FULLILOVE: Well, we have a lot of those critical minerals, a lot of lithium and other minerals. And I think that the Albanese administration will propose a deal to President Trump by which the United States gets access to our strategic reserve of critical minerals in return for investments. I think this is a good thing because I think it's good for democracies to work together. So I think that'll be a positive announceable later today.
I might say the other thing, Steve, that Australians are looking for is some sort of signal from President Trump about what he thinks about AUKUS. That's the arrangement by which the United States and the United Kingdom are helping Australia to develop and deploy a fleet of nuclear-powered, conventionally armed submarines. Both parties in Australia want it. Two-thirds of Australians want it. President Biden hope - promised it, but President Trump hasn't yet said what he thinks about it, and we know there are skeptics in the administration. So I'm sure your Australian reporter colleagues in the Oval Office meeting will be asking him what he thinks of AUKUS.
INSKEEP: OK. We'll be listening for the answers to that. Michael Fullilove, thanks so much.
FULLILOVE: Thank you, Steve.
INSKEEP: He's executive director of the Lowy Institute in Sydney. Transcript provided by NPR, Copyright NPR.
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