JUANA SUMMERS, HOST:
SNAP - that's the Supplemental Nutrition Assistance Program run by the Department of Agriculture - is on track to stop issuing benefits in just a few days. USDA lays the blame on Democrats, who have voted against reopening the government until health care subsidies are addressed. And that will put the roughly 42 million food stamp recipients in an incredibly tough place, facing impossible choices to keep themselves and their loved ones fed. A group of Republican senators have signed onto a workaround. It's a bill to fund SNAP in spite of the shutdown. And one Democrat has broken ranks to join them. He's here in the studio with us now. Senator Peter Welch, welcome back to ALL THINGS CONSIDERED.
PETER WELCH: Thank you.
SUMMERS: Thanks for being here. Senator, you are the only Democrat at this point officially supporting this bill, though Democrats, I'll note, tried to force a vote on a similar bill earlier today. So I just want to start by asking you, when you talk to your Democratic colleagues, what do they say to you?
WELCH: Well, No. 1, they're getting on board. I mean, I want to thank Senator Hawley. He and a number of Republicans have said the obvious, and that is we cannot discontinue the $6 a day that SNAP benefits depend on to put meals on the table. And I've been talking to my Democratic colleagues saying, look, we're for that. Senator Hawley is for it. Let's work together and see if we can take action that's going to avert what really is catastrophic for SNAP beneficiaries.
SUMMERS: But yet you're still the only Democrat signed onto the bill that Senator Josh Hawley of Missouri is the lead sponsor of. Do you see any more of your colleagues coming on board?
WELCH: Well, I do. In fact, Senator Schumer wants to get on along with several more of my colleagues. So we're acknowledging our gratitude to Senator Hawley and our other Republican colleagues that we share a concern. And, you know, with these benefits, it's not a red state-blue state deal.
SUMMERS: Right.
WELCH: It's not a Republican-Democratic deal. It's a hungry family situation. And I think all of us have to demonstrate, by getting on the bill and by making certain the funding continues, that we're together on representing our folks.
SUMMERS: Let me ask you this. Majority Leader Senator John Thune yesterday spoke out against what he referred to as a piecemeal approach to make parts of the shutdown, and I'm quoting here, "more politically palatable or less painful." And I just want to take a listen to what he had to say today. He was talking about the similar bill from Democratic Senator Ben Ray Lujan of New Mexico.
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JOHN THUNE: It's not like you're doing anything here that isn't accomplished by reopening the government.
SUMMERS: Senator Welch, any reason to believe that the legislation that you support will be met with more enthusiasm?
WELCH: No, I don't. Senator Thune made it very clear that he's not going to budge, whether it's a Senator Hawley bill or a Senator Lujan bill. And that's unfortunate. And by the way, one thing that the senator didn't point out, Senator Thune, is right now the government has authority to continue SNAP payments. The Congress in the past, bipartisan, passed legislation to fund $5 billion available to go out to SNAP beneficiaries in the event of an emergency or a government shutdown. So that gives President Trump the legal authority and the funds to continue the SNAP payments during...
SUMMERS: Right.
WELCH: ...The shutdown. Some states, like my own of Vermont, just decided to continue SNAP payments with their own funds for 15 days.
SUMMERS: Right. Something else that Senator Thune said today is that President Trump will sit down with Democrats next week to negotiate on health care, but he will only do that if the shutdown comes to an end. Is that enough reassurance for you and your Democratic colleagues to reopen the government?
WELCH: Well, I was very encouraged that he said that President Trump would sit down with us because that is not something President Trump has said to us, whether the shutdown is on or off. But, you know, the health care issue that is at the core of this is in some ways similar to SNAP, similar in the sense Vermonters who are going to face $20,000 premium increases, that can happen to folks in Louisiana or Texas. Again, it's going to happen to folks who voted for Trump or folks who didn't. And it's not a sustainable hit for a family...
SUMMERS: Right.
WELCH: ...That's paying 10,000 now to pay $35,000 tomorrow.
SUMMERS: Can we talk a little bit more about these health care subsidies? Because, I mean, Democrats such as yourself have held out, voting not to reopen the government more than a dozen times now in hopes of getting these subsidies addressed. And we'll just note, without those subsidies, coverage through the Affordable Care Act will be prohibitively expensive for 2 million Americans or more, according to the CBO and others. But that said, 42 million Americans receive food stamps. So is there a point at which the harm caused by the shutdown exceeds the potential benefits from a negotiation on health care?
WELCH: Sure. I mean, we've got to assess this. I mean, I'm going to step back for a minute. There has been an assault on health care. You know, we saw in the one big, beautiful bill, 15 million Americans are going to lose health care. It's going to be really devastating for community hospitals. Now, Round 2, we're going to lose these subsidies or tax credits where people are trying to buy their own health care. And this is a continuation of Trump's effort to repeal Obamacare. That's what's really at stake here. On the other hand, those of us who are trying to fight for it have to be constantly assessing whether the particular means of trying to achieve that goal, a shutdown, is working or it's not. So that is an ongoing question and a fair question.
SUMMERS: How do you answer it right now? Is it working?
WELCH: It's not working right now but it could work. And where the opportunity we have is President Trump deciding to make a phone call and authorize my Republican colleagues to negotiate with us. And what's frustrating on my end as a senator is that when I talk to many of my Republican colleagues, they know these premium increases are going to hammer folks they represent and small businesses and farmers. And they have some suggestions on how we could bring costs down. And I say, I am working with you on that. Let's sit down. And they tell me unless they get the OK, the approval from President Trump, they can't. So this could be solved very quickly. But the key person is President Trump who says, hey, let's solve this.
SUMMERS: You say that the key person is President Trump. But do you worry that your party will be blamed if these SNAP benefits expire and 42 million American people who receive food stamps are affected?
WELCH: You know, I'm really, really worried about people losing that $6 a day. I'm really, really worried about farmers and small businesses and families in Vermont losing their health care. You know, I had a woman in Vermont who just put it very well. She is dependent on these tax credits. She's got two kids, a small business with her husband. And she says, as a mother, she feels utterly irresponsible if she doesn't have health care for her kids. But with the premium increases, she feels it's utterly impossible to pay for them. It's on the U.S. Senate. And that mother that I just described, she's not just in Vermont. She is in the Republican voting states as well. So my appeal to the president is use the authority you have, convene us, and then let's solve this and move on.
SUMMERS: We've been speaking with Democratic Senator Peter Welch of Vermont. Thank you so much for being here.
WELCH: Thank you.
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