MICHEL MARTIN, HOST:
President Trump is threatening Oman. Oman is the U.S. ally that's been moderating indirect talks between the U.S. and Iran. Fox News reporter Trey Yingst recounted some of an exchange with Trump on Monday.
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TREY YINGST: And the president told Fox News, if Oman gets in the way, we'll bomb the S out of them.
MARTIN: The president's threat coincides with talks over control of the Strait of Hormuz and the expiration of a 60-day memorandum of understanding that the president had touted as a roadmap to peace. For more on this, we've called Michael Fuchs. He's a former official in the Biden White House and the State Department during the Obama administration. He's now a director for U.S. foreign policy at the Open Society Foundations - that's an advocacy group founded by George Soros. Mr. Fuchs, welcome back. Thanks for joining us.
MICHAEL FUCHS: It's my pleasure.
MARTIN: So this isn't the first time that President Trump has threatened Oman. In a Cabinet meeting in May, he said Oman would have to, quote, "behave just like everybody else, or we will have to blow them up," unquote. Do you have a sense of why President Trump is being so hostile toward Oman?
FUCHS: Well, Michel, I think that President Trump clearly lashes out at those who he perceives to be crossing him. And in this case, Oman is just the latest in a very long list of countries, as well as individuals, who the president believes are crossing him. So right now, President Trump is clearly very deeply unhappy with the state of the conflict in the region, as he should be. And so he has heard whispers of Oman talking with Iran about potentially trying to cut a side deal to open up the strait, including through charging tolls for vessels that are transiting the waterway.
And that's something that the president is deeply unhappy about because it makes it seem as though he is not in control of the situation there. He, of course, has been talking about the need to open up the Strait of Hormuz now for many, many months. And so the smallest hint that Oman may be trying to cut a side deal with Iran is making him deeply unhappy. Again, not a surprise. You see him lash out at U.S. partners and allies all the time. Just the other day, he was lashing out at our ally, South Korea, as well. So again, not a huge surprise.
MARTIN: But in this instance, he's threatening to bomb a partner, and I'm wondering, based on your experience, how might other allies, especially in the Gulf, be thinking about this when they hear that?
FUCHS: Yeah. Well, I think that for six months now, I think many of our partners in the Gulf, as well as elsewhere, are looking at the events in the region and the war - this illegal, unnecessary war that the president has started - and thinking to themselves that they need to look how to - figure out how to secure their interests elsewhere, frankly. And so whether or not you're taking the president's threats to bomb Oman seriously or not, I think that other partners in the Gulf are absolutely taking the president's actions of the last six months deeply seriously.
And as you can tell by Oman's conversations with Iran, as well as other conversations that we've gotten a sense of that other partners in the region are having with themselves and with one another, everyone is looking to hedge their bets against the United States and its erratic nature and its erratic policies in the region. And I think that's exactly what the other partners in the region are looking at right now - how to secure their own interests right now.
MARTIN: So the memorandum of understanding with Iran expired Monday. Fox quotes Trump as saying, Iran should just, quote, "put up the white flag of surrender," unquote. They clearly are not doing that. So just in the time we have left - we have about 50 seconds left - what do you see going forward?
FUCHS: Well, look, I think that this is clearly a game of high-stakes chicken right now. Neither side, neither the United States nor Iran, want to back down. And so I think what we have to do in order to figure out what happens next is take a step back. President Trump started this war six months ago. It has proved to be an epic disaster for the people of the region, and for the people of the United States. People are dying in the region. Prices for Americans are going up, and clearly, we are undermining, as the United States, our ability to tackle challenges in other regions, such as Asia and Europe. So the president wants this war to end. I think everybody wants this war to end, but he just can't figure out exactly how to do it.
MARTIN: Michael Fuchs is a former official in the Biden and Obama administrations, now at the Open Society Foundations. Mr. Fuchs, thank you for your time.
FUCHS: Yeah, it's my pleasure. Thanks for having me.
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